Sampire V2.0

[Alpha]

Twinkle McNugget Said:
 

Maybe what I'm trying to say here is why if you have daamge/honor/tacts/anat/slayer would you waste another item on ANOTHER slayer when you're already at cap?  They do not stack on a DEXER unless you're running a template that has 90 tacts no anat no damage increase.  It would be a waste any other time really.

Why...??  Because knowing EXACTLY how the system functions is my goal..   Building unusual & effective templates is based on understanding the specifics when other's typically don't & is an aspect of the game I'm good @ and enjoy heh.  Also.. as far as I can tell the only things that apply towards the 300% CAP  of what you listed are Honor (100%) & Slayer (200-300%) but everything else is not applied towards that 300%.

Also in reply to Paulonius...

So now considering how this affects my PvM template, say I want to work a spawn  with my whammy/Sampire without casting EoO, provided I am using the appropriate super slayer I am starting with a base 200 out of the max 300.  To make up the last 100 points I need to rely on DI on items and honor - and if I am not on a bushi dexxer I have to do it with DI alone?

I said it above in another post but unless I'm mistaken DAMAGE INCREASE on items (ex.. 40% DI on a sword) DOES NOT count towards the 300% cap.

IF you accept that a specific Slayer weapon (Dragon slayer for example) puts you at the 300%...   Then you should do the same amount of damage using for example a Dragon slayer with say 100% Damage increase (on items) as you would with 0% Damage increase.  This IS NOT the case.   Damage increase upt o 100% will continue to raise the displayed damage in your status bar... and The damage range in your status bar is what the 300% CAP is applied TO...   

Anyway.. this is why PvM Damage increase  & the 300% cap are confusing bc.. everyone says something different. lol  I HAVE tested what I've said though in the past 2 days at least.

[Scrripty]

I'm gonna still stick by my initial statement that 2 slayers DO NOT stack.  You guys can argue what you will, I'm 99.9 percent sure I'm correct about that.  I read it in the recent changes to slayer properties.  Someone check the news ferret.

[Paulonius]

My understanding was that DI on weapons and items and everything BUT stats and skills is included in the 300, it is the bonus from stats and skills that is outside the 300.

Twinkle McNugget, the slayer on talis stacks with other slayers.  That is the only stack that I am aware of, but I am 100% sure of it as I have tested it pretty carefully.

[Scrripty]

My understanding was that DI on weapons and items and everything BUT stats and skills is included in the 300, it is the bonus from stats and skills that is outside the 300.

Twinkle McNugget, the slayer on talis stacks with other slayers.  That is the only stack that I am aware of, but I am 100% sure of it as I have tested it pretty carefully.

Then my other statement about it being pretty pointless unless you have no damage inc and no tacs/anat still holds true. heh

[Cerveza]

100% DI from items + 100% DI from Perfection= 200% + (200% x 50% from EoO) = 300%. You would add the 100% from items, the 100% from Perfection, then mulitiply that by 50%, which 200% times 50% equals 100%, then add that to your 200% to make 300%, if that makes sense. If you're using a specific slayer, such as a dragon slayer, you can do without the EoO completely, as the specific slayers now give 150% bonus instead of 100%. Super slayers are still 100% only.

[Paulonius]

I still don't follow completely. It seems like people were saying 200 and 300 for the slayer increases, and 100 for the EoO increase. Are you are saying EoO is 50% of the DI you have before you use it? Where does the 150 for specific slayer come from?

Are these right?

No Slayer:

DI 100 Items + 100 DI Perfection + EoO = 300

Super Slayer:

DI 100 Items + 100 DI Perfection + 100 Super Slayer  = 300

Specific Slayer

DI 100 Items + 150 Specific Slayer + 100 DI Perfection || EoO = 300 (will be over 300)

I think I was hoping it might be possible to do max damage without relying on EoO or perfection. It sounds like maybe that's not possible.

Specific Slayer

DI 100 Items + 150 DI Specific Slayer = 250

Super Slayer:

DI 100 Items + 100 DI Super Slayer  = 200




I re-read the stratics post:

Note: that a slayer weapon is double damage (a 200 damage rating). Enemy of One has a rating of 100. The combination of those two alone would reach our cap of 300.

From this it sounds like 100 DI from weapons and a slayer would put you at 300 -- although that doesn't seem to match with my experience.



 

[Cerveza]

Don't forget about tactics/anatomy/lumberjacking/strength. They all add to the BASE DAMAGE of the weapon and aren't figured into the 300%.

[Paulonius]

Yeah, I guess I was focussing on what figures into hitting the 300 ceiling, not the stats and skills that figure into base damage.   With that limitation, does my previous post look right? 

The FoF post makes me think that you don't need any DI if you are using a slayer and EoO, but that doesn't fit with what I posted.  Are they assuming you have 100DI on items/weapons?

[Alpha]

Here's the short version as far as my testing has concluded...

If "IT" changes the displayed damage in your status bar then whatever "IT" is (skills / STR / Damage Increase <Items up to 100% DI>)
IS NOT included in the 300% CAP....

OBSERVATIONS that helped me conclude this...

1) Conjurers Trinket + UNDEAD slayer weapon + EEO..  Should be 300% by itself, but if you add in 100% Damage increase (Items) you will do MORE damage..

THUS... Damage increase IS NOT part of the 300% Cap

2)  Using a Specific Slayer (Dragon slayer) will not do any more damage when I cast EEO

THUS... Specific Slayer by iteself PUTS you at the 300% CAP yet If you increase your Damage Increase you will still do more damage..

So... 

Super Slayer  200%
Specific Slayer 300%
EEO 100% ?? Unsure of this   If you use super slayer + eeo... can anyone tell me if its possible to increase this dmg with perfection?
Perfection up to 100%

Not counted towards 300% = (skills / STR / Damage Increase <Items up to 100% DI>)
IS NOT included in the 300% CAP....


Anyway..  If you can tell me where I drew the wron conclusion from what I've tested pls. do...  I'd still like to make this crystal clear & have everyone agree.

[lob91]

I am currently building a sampie suit and char.

120 Fencing
120 Parry
120 Bushido
100 Tactics
100 Necro
80 Chivalry
70 Spirit Speak
10 Anatomy


What would my kill/stay alive loop be?

evade every how many secs?
curse wep every?
lightning strike?

sorry havent played yet, trying to remember all of it

[Paulonius]

Alpha, I don't think that looking at your status bar can be a conclusive proof of your theory.  Have you done any experimenting with it actually hitting something?  Your observation directly contradicts things that the devs have said several times about damage increase -- although I would suggest that is not conclusive either. 

[Alpha]

Paul Said:

Alpha, I don't think that looking at your status bar can be a conclusive proof of your theory.  Have you done any experimenting with it actually hitting something?

Alpha Said:

Here's the short version as far as my testing has concluded...

My Tamer friend let me Hit his G. Drag & I'd calculated the corresponding base damage after accounting for it's resistances using Animal Lore...
So if I hit something 30 times(physical dmg) & had a damage range of 78 -104 & the creature has say 56 physical...  100% - 56% = 44% of Actual Dmg was delivered so my actual damage was 177-236 etc....  (0.44X = 78 ) & (0.44X = 104)... X= 177-236

The tests I did were really just  simple comparisons....     A > B    I used 2 slayers + EEO and without 100% DI I still did less dmg then with it....  Not sure what other conclusions you want to draw from that one...  I know that 2 undead slayers stack bc you do more with 2 than with 1 etc...

Anyway.....  I'm positive my OBSERVATIONS were correct when I tested them... of course what CONCLUSIONS you want to draw from them is up to you but I'd love to hear it if you can come up with anything different than I did...     I still haven't thrown Chiv on a character to test EEO though, but the 1) & 2)  I posted I know were accurate.....

[Paulonius]

Its definitely interesting information. Tough to build the perfect template if you can't figure out the effing game mechanics, so nice work!!

**Karma for you for working on it!!

[Cerveza]

Wow, weird that damage is still so confusing...

100% from items + 200% from "specials" like slayer, EoO, etc.... = 300% cap (plus stat and skill bonus)

Tactics, Anatomy, Lumberjacking and Strength add to that, more specifically...

Tactics Damage Bonus = (120 / 1.6) + 6.25 = 81.25%
Anatomy Damage Bonus = (120 / 2) + 5 = 65%
Lumberjacking Damage Bonus = (100/5)+10  = 30%
Strength Damage Bonus = (125 * 0.3) + 5 = 42.5%
Items Damage Increase = 100%

Total for the "100% or Items" side = 318.75% of base damage



Effects include - Super Slayer Weapons (100%), Specific Slayer Weapons (200%), Enemy of One, Divine Fury, etc....



Now, the original question was "Will a slayer talisman work with a slayer weapon"?

*IF* the slayer weapon is a Specific Slayer Type, then NO it won't work with it because you have already capped out on the "effects" side at 200%.

I would assume the same to stand true regarding a specific slayer type of talisman.

That should be enough information to completely confuse people

[Ultima]