My 11 yr old son's teacher...

[Crome969]

The problem nowadays when People getting less paid, working hard, and havnt any other chances they start to avoid everything what needs more efforts. I hear and see it on many teachers here in Germany. Employee buddy from myself , her daugther is supreme intelectual and the teacher said she cant give her more tasks because she is a halftime teacher and dont work for free at home to check for some tasks for Childrens like her.
She dont want to make trips with their class after 12AM because she dont get paid after and she dont work more than she would get paid. She never participate on any actions after 12 AM and that makes it hard for all those mums who work and want to spend all other activities with their childrens.Otherwise some teacher on my Education school spending days and nights to get the best process of learning of us and trying all.
It really depending on the Schools itselfs, when they keep their employees under stress, let em less pay and they have nothing to keep their problems away. Some people burning out, some not.
And as i said, any problem need a solution, that means they must "work more" and they will try to avoid and cover all until they cant hold it anymore.

For yourself i think you can be proud, it really sounds you want the best for your Son, and even when he took the apoligize, Killing and say Sorry dont compare the matter. But its not a shame to take an apoligize.Childrens in that age need to learn about and iam sure next time if that would happen again, your son wouldnt take a simple "sorry".

[holmedog]

Wasn't around to read this initially, but I just wanted to post a thought I had while reading the original story as it unfolded.

(A little backstory)  I was a *very* bad person ~10 years ago.  I don't talk about these things, anymore, except as warnings.  Since this conversation isn't about that, I will just say I was the kind of person you didn't want to be associated with. (enough backstory)

The teacher's reaction of "I don't remember" is the best possible thing she could have done.  You don't deny it, because then you can be caught in a lie.  You *NEVER* admit to doing it, because then you have hung yourself.  As a person who has had to deal with being on the wrong side of the lawsuit/criminal charges/etc the absolute first thing a lawyer will tell you is "Shut up".  Tell the truth.  Cooperate.  But, never admit to doing anything and be as vague as possible.

I know, it's not being a stand-up person.  But, I just kind of wanted to shed some light on why she would hold that line even though everyone knows (or at least suspects) she is lying.

Also, big props on handling it like a true adult and not running off hot-headed and/or doing something stupid that would have caused more problems.

[SolidSnake]

Hmm...where to go on this....

I am an older person who, when i was younger, was routinely wupped by my teachers, then the principal and then by Father when I got home.
 
Looking at it in retrospect...I am going to stand out and say it was actually a very very very good thing. When I was disciplined, honestly speaking, it was almost always for a pretty good reason. I was a "high energy" child..what they would likely call ADD today...although it was just simply "hyperactive" back then. You controled your hyperactive children by working them hard and making sure you kept them focused on the task at hand. If that meant using "applied methods"...so be it.

Those who mistakenly think THEY are the sole responsibility for raising their children are delusional to the point where they may actually be the ones needing a swift slap up their ass. This type of thinking is both wrong and deluded. Society raises a child..the bearers of the spawn just do it part time. You HAVE to rely on the others around you to fill out the rest. Those people MUST have methods of control.

The combined actions of teachers, with whom you spend a greater deal of your waking young life around, and my parents kept me under control.... in a child that could have easily gone out of control.

Thanx to that strict control, I (and my brothers and sisters) were all able to grow up and flourish. No-one went to jail, no drugs..etc.

My father only had trouble once, when a teacher was just being a bit on the mean side..they took care of it between themselves. There is no need to involve any anyone or anything else.

Given that any child now-a-days spends more time with their teachers than with their parents...it is important that they have a well proven avenue of controling the children.

With all proper deserved disrespect and disdain to Dr. Spock and the tofu eating dumb ass generations that have been raised since that putz was able to weasel into our society, It would do all of us, and society in general, if we went back to what thousands of years has always showed us upright animals how to properly control and raise our own animals...err children.

If I was put in this situation, it would have simply been me and the teacher hashing it out ourselves and the child would be back in that class learning and doing what they were supposed to immediately with no excuses.

Instead of fomenting the "entitled" type of society..it would be best to instead push responsibility and understanding (meaning the teacher may have made a mistake but no harm done..as long as it doesn't happen again).

I would thank the teacher for maintaining discipline on my child and express a hope that they did not make a mistake. Benefit of doubt must be given the teacher, to maintain the rule of respect your elders. The child is told to tighten their belt, get back into classroom and behave in such a fashion that a repeat incident is not necessary.

I may be old school but something to think about...people always say "things were better" back then. Well..there is a darn good reason and we all need to get back under control..both parents and our children. It is a group effort.  Sorry to say but realistically..most folks today, from the last 2-3 generations are not capable of raising children properly. They were not raised correctly and thus lack the very foundation of knowledge that any good parent / teacher needs.

Never ever forget the real basics here; We are animals..raising animals. All animals respond to certain stimuli better than others. Sharp non-permanent pain has the ability to sufficiently imprint the importance of the given concept or behaviorial path deeply within the cranial material...to a certain point.

[Paulonius]

When I was a kid I grew up with the same discipline you did SS: teachers could and did knock the crap out of you and if you complained to your parents you generally got another round. My fifth grade teacher, Sister Sue, had a big wooden paddle for hitting her students.  She didn't limit herself though, she would hit you with whatever was handy. My dad got physical with us until I made it clear to him that I would knock his teeth out if he tried it again. Parenting like that wasn't all that unusual, but just because I was raised by parents who lacked parenting skills and I turned out relatively sane doesn't validate the program.   

When I was a kid we also thought you needed to slap the crap out of a dog and rub its nose in its own poop to house train it. Now I realize that if you have to hit your dog, or your kid, all you are doing is demonstrating that you are inept as a parent.

[12TimesOver]

I'm having some issues recently with my daughter's 6th grade teacher and I have just called the principal of the school tonight and left a message requesting a meeting to discuss my concerns.

Now here's the thing, I am definitely not one of those parents that believe in raising kids that are expectant of society to take care of them when it is my job as a parent to transfer the skills that they need in order to take care of themselves. I also believe that there are some major problems with the current public-culture and attitude toward raising kids nowadays that tends to veer toward development of an attitude of "entitlement". However, when it comes to the disclipine of my kids there are some things that cross the line and verbal or physical abuse falls into this category.

I don't hit my kids; never have and I never intend to. Interestingly enough I still have kids that are at least reasonably well-behaved (nobody is perfect and making mistakes is part of the learning process). I will not tolerate anyone else thinking that they should have the right to abuse my kids, especially those in the role of a teacher. I would be more than happy to meet someone who has violated my tolerance in this way one-on-one and "take care" of the issue straight away (I can be pretty scary believe it or not), but our culture does not tolerate this method of deailing with justice anymore than my intolerance of the injustice to begin with.

The next, least rash step is to communicate with those who need to be communicated with. In my case, the teacher has been verbally abusive with the kids including, but not limited to telling them on a number of occasions that they "pissed him off", they "suck" because they weren't behaving, and that they are "acting like assholes" just to name a few things. Far from physical abuse, yes, but this is not tolerable behavior for a teacher.

From there are just a number of temper-tantrum induced, ridiculous mass-bannings or punishments driven by the fact that the teacher is not good at his job and does not get the respect from some of the kids. For example, taking away snack time for everyone because a kid left an apple-core on the floor of the lunch room - my daughter has low blood sugar and relies on this snack in order to make it through the day. Or taking away access to their lockers because a couple of kids abused the privilege when my wife and I rely on my daughter having access to her locker in order for things like jackets and lunch boxes not to be lost or ruined. Removing recess from all kids because of the behavior of one kid is another one that's not ok with me, kids need to exercise and will be better behaved as well as better students when given the opportunity; this method may work in basic training but not with elementary school kids.

I've decided most of these issues are minor concerns which I will address with the teacher directly. However, when it comes to verbal abuse this is something I will take up with the teachers boss and allow my daughter to remain anonymous to the teacher else he start taking his behavior issues to the next level with her because of this. I have a call in to the principal as the first step in the process.

X

[Paulonius]

I am with you on the entitlement issue 100%.  My family is a good control group to demonstrate that beatings don't moderate a sense of entitlement.  My parents were completley abusive by today's standards and have nine kids.  50% of those capable of choosing are self sufficient, and the other 50% are entitled takers. The more you get involved in helping them, the less they do for themselves. One of the nine is schizophrenic and I don't think you can include her as she is not accountable for most of her decisions. She is the smartest of the lot of us though.

[TrailMyx]

I went back and read Cerveza's original posting, and though I believe in deserved punishment, it sounded like that teacher was having a Midol moment, and didn't need to be taking it out on one of her students.

[Cerveza]

Exactly, and it appears she has had more, or enough to warrant a "disciplinary hearing".

[SlackBladder]

In my opinion Cerveza, you handled this perfectly and your son will take a lot from seeing how it was handled....

My stepson is a Headmaster (principle/dean equivilent for you guys?), so i see the inside workings of a school......
His school supplys education in a deprived area, and unfortunately 80% of the parents think/let the school bring up their children, in our country it seems to be a growing trend.
Yet when any of the children are unruly or violent and dealt with by the teachers (much of the violence they learn/see from home) then the parents are in the school shouting from the rooftops, sometimes it can be a thankless task....

In your case the situation was easy to have been put to bed, the principle/dean should have taken immediate responsibilty and forced the teacher to apologise and then dealt with the teacher in whatever way the guidelines lay down.....
There was no need to have let this go on as long as it did.

Being a teacher (expecialy in the UK) is an extremely stressfull job, a large % of the kids in the bigger citys know that they are almost invulnerable and will use this to their advantage.......

Hopefully your son feels comfortable enough to continue learning in that class, although i dont foresee the teacher lasting much longer in the job, she sounds like she is on the edge of a  nervous breakdown......
Hope all goes well.....

[Tidus]

I just read the whole thing too. I believe you were in the right Cerv.  You did the right thing and taught your son a very important lesson.  There was NO disrespect to the teacher in how he handled it. Respect goes both way. True respect is respect of the person and not the title. Being in the military we say alot, i will respect the rank, but i will not respect the person.  To be a true leader you need the respect of the people for the type of person you are.  Your son is well on that way.

With the teacher, the only reason you would need a "couple" days to compose yourself it to make up your excuses.  It is not hard to apologize for something as simple as that.  They were on their way when they said they do not remember, and if they did they are sorry.  That could have been expanded upon and say, that they did not realize that they did it. If they have done any wrong it was not their intent and that they will make every effort to make it up to the child.  That last part is what was missing that showed the sincerity. Maybe they don't remember it, but they needed to be humble and just take it for what it was worth. You are not degrading your integrity by apologizing for something. There are many times that i apologize for something that i did not do, but because it was one of my subordinates that did it, an apology is warranted from me. I did not prevent them from doing it. I must not have trained them well enough to not do it, so therefore some blame rests with me. 

However just remember, reasoning is an excuse.  If you want a reason from someone you are asking for an excuse. Too many people now seem to want to know why something happened, but will not listen to the story or reason and just say they don't want excuses. This is a misleading concept. No excuses means don't ask why. Just say you did it, sucks that it happened, change it and MOVE ON.  (Sorry for the last paragraph as a rant. Has nothing to do with anything Cerv did, just an observation.)

For those that say It happened to me when i was a child and nothing is wrong with me.  Sorry, there is something wrong with you. Basic human liberties is a very valuable thing. This can only be taught by you as a parent.  Discipline is one thing. Consequence for action. However when it comes to physical discipline, the punishment nearly never meets the crime.  I do spank, and i do hit my son's hand. However i never do it out of anger and i don't show anger when i do it. I do not want my child to bring anger and hitting together.  If it is meant for discipline there should be no emotion involved. When i was "disciplined" as a child, i was hit out of anger. Anger is the root of our problem.  Did i turn out bad because i was hit?  No because i did learn from it. I learned what i would not do. I learned alternative ways. If you need to use an object to instill discipline, you need to look at how well disciplined you are.  However i do believe that there is not one way to teach a child. One might learn more from pain, and the other might learn more from emotion.  We will learn this as our children grow. Just remember, if you are going to regret it the second after you do it, or you might feel the least bit guilty about it, you have drawn past your own line that your own beliefs have drawn.  We do this alot with things we say and things we do.  We teach ourselves very valuable lessons. Just be receptive of this.

*Steps off soap box*

[Cerveza]

I have to appear this morning and give testimony. I'll let ya know how things turn out.

[TrailMyx]

Be sure to wear your best "kiss my ass" tee-shirt.  lol  Good luck with it.

[Cerveza]

Turns out they didn't need my testimony. Guess they had enough ammo without me.

They said *if* they need me it'll be tomorrow afternoon.

This was a hearing she requested. I guess when a tenured teacher gets fired, there is an automatic appeal process. I guess this is it.

[TrailMyx]

Sounds like they had more dirt on this teacher....

[Newsman]

When I was a child of your son's age, I probably would have grabbed a solid object and savagely beat the living hell out of said teacher.  I have had strong feelings about respect since a very early age and battery would have supplied me with ample justification for a violent response.

As an adult,  I would have sued the school.  I can't give a legal opinion but unwanted touching constitutes battery.  It's a crime and tort.  If I had been in your situation, said teacher would have lost their job, ended up on probation(not a very severe offense) and you would be typing your response to this from your beach house on a delightful Caribbean island.

Though your response was level headed.  The teacher was way out of line given the facts you provided.