ScriptUO
Casa de TrailMyx => Programming / Operating Systems => Linux => Topic started by: TrailMyx on November 06, 2008, 09:02:45 AM
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To say I'm a Linux fan is an understatement. I have been using Linux since the early days of Slackware and you got the distributions on 5.25" floppy disks. It was a pain download them at 1200 baud!
This is really an exciting time because the combination of virtualization and Linux allows you to pretty much depart from the dependence of MS operating systems.
I've been a RedHat nut for a long time. I own all their versions up through Linux 7, when I joined the Fedora project. From there I have been testing the latest and greatest version that they'll roll into their enterprise products. At the moment I'm using Fedora 9 (attached desktop).
You'll see that I'm running UO (under Wine), WoW (under Wine), ScriptUO development (under virtualized Win2003 with VMWare). All run smoothly (50-110 FPS in WoW). WoW is actually smoother run with Wine than it is running in Win2003!
Boy, I have sampled so many distributions too. At one point I've had Gentoo, Unbuntu, Slackware, SuSe, Mandriva/Mandrake running here and there.
For those that are shy about system administration of Linux, you might want to give www.webmin.com a try. It's a great graphical web-based utility that allows you to control all aspects of your Linux box.
Anyhow, I just wanted to create this forum for any other Linux heads out there.
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I've always wanted to set up a linux box, but never got to it with installing all the drivers and such for keyboard, mouse and all... now, I just simply do not have time. The nerd in me though would like to and get that stuff going since it can do UO, through win or whatever that is :P Everything else I would use on a computer has linux apps, so, it would be easy for me, just getting the time to do it.
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Wine:
http://www.winehq.org/
Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X, OpenGL, and Unix.
Think of Wine as a compatibility layer for running Windows programs. Wine does not require Microsoft Windows, as it is a completely free alternative implementation of the Windows API consisting of 100% non-Microsoft code, however Wine can optionally use native Windows DLLs if they are available. Wine provides both a development toolkit for porting Windows source code to Unix as well as a program loader, allowing many unmodified Windows programs to run on x86-based Unixes, including Linux, FreeBSD, Mac OS X, and Solaris.
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Oh boy, now you've asked for it TM! You are officially going to be one of my two guys to talk to about getting Linux installed now which means you're going to find out first hand how bad a bad procrastinator can really be!
But seriously, what Linux flavor would you recommend for someone without a budget for an OS but still needing something feature rich enough to make me a convert? I have installed Redhat a few times over the years but have never spent a lot of time getting to know the OS; usually it's "wham bam thank you ma'am" and I'm off.
I'm definitely impressed by the idea of moving away from my MS reliance even though Microsoft is my bread-and-butter right now (been an MCSE since the 3.51 days, SQL DBA, etc). I highly doubt I'll be formatting my PC at home any time soon, at least until I build a new one, but I'd love to start messing with it in VMWare or something.
XII
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People will try and tell you that Linux distributions are all the same. That's not true really. Generally, you tend to settle on one distribution because there are enough differences to make it confusing to be completely knowledgeable about them all.
So really the distributions are categorized according to your knowledge/time level. For me, I ended up choosing Fedora (Redhat) just because of all the time I spent tinkering with it before they became a company. I like the idea that the Fedora product is just the early look at what their Enterprise product will be (CentOS) and it's nice to know there's an actual company backing the product.
However, Fedora avoids all commercial copyrighted information, so there are packages missing from a Fedora distribution that make the setup difficult if you are looking for multimedia (i.e. No audio/video codecs, etc.). Ubuntu does better with this.
Redhat/Fedora uses YUM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Dog_Updater_Modified) to manage packages and has a nice graphical front end (Yumex) so it's easy to browse through distribution repositories from Redhat or others. Another nice thing about Fedora is there are some master repositories out there that manage lots of very useful packages like kernel modifications for NVidia/ATI video. Livna is the one in particular that's installed on my system as soon as I get a new OS installed. Then I'm a fan of Webmin for general setup of user/bootinfo/database setup/etc.
I kinda liked OpenSUSE from Novell because it has a lot for multimedia and many applications in its main distribution, but it was different enough from what I was used to.
So really you'll have to do a bit more homework to find what you might be interested in. However, using VMWare/VirtualBox you can install and test drive any of them. I even had a Solaris 10 VM running to play with. :)
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Good info, thanks.
I asked a guy here at work the same question. He thought Fedora might be a good way to go but also recommended Ubuntu. Guess I'll have to play with both :)
XII
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Ubuntu is for kidz... :p
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Ubuntu is for kidz... :p
Ouch!! LOL
...says the video-gaming scripter ::)
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Ubuntu is pretty basic when it comes to Linux I myself and been starting to dable in Gentoo after realizing that Ubuntu just wasn't all that interesting lol.
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Ubuntu is pretty basic when it comes to Linux I myself and been starting to dable in Gentoo after realizing that Ubuntu just wasn't all that interesting lol.
Ubuntu was (and is) the richest initial distro. They caused companies like Redhat to really think about what they put into their products. You can really see the influence that Ubuntu had on the last couple releases of Fedora. Both F8 and F9 had MANY more features than I had previously seen, and I can attribute that to Ubuntus dominance on the initial linux users market. If I hadn't been running Linux for 16 years, I would have probably started with it also.
Gentoo is something that will make the sexiest personalized installations (no bloated kernel junk), but it's a bit of a setup Queen. But my IT friend LOVES it, but he's a true Linux nerd. I didn't have the patience to figure it out now that I'm sold on graphical installers. Installing Gentoo reminded me of installing Slackware back in 92... heh.
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Totally agreed Ubuntu is so very much a feature rich and userfriendly Linux setup :)
Gentoo has a decent GUI that can be setup as well so it isn't as a big of a PITA but installing it is horrible lol.
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Just for testing purposes I went ahead and started loading Fedora 9 as a MS Virtual PC 2007 guest with only one problem which I was able to quickly remedy by adding a switch to the end of the boot command "noreplace-paravirt" (thanks to "The Sean Blog" for the fix - http://blogs.technet.com/seanearp/archive/2008/05/19/installing-fedora-9-sulphur-in-virtual-pc-2007.aspx).
Very cool!
XII
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I had coffee cake for breakfast.
I was going to just have one slice, but after it was gone I really wanted more. I checked how much coffee I still had in my cup and decided it was enough for a second slice.
Thats about how much of this discussion I understand.
I'd really like to try out some stuff, maybe on my son's pc (mines just running so darn good right now). I load him up with TinyXP Rev09 and start putting on his games. Basically thats all his pc is, games.
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Cerv we should build you a beast of a computer so you can run lots of VMs just for the hell of it lol.
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I would like some coffee cake...
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Poor Cerveza...
Anyhow, with VMs, it's kinda fun to go and test-drive these kinds of operating systems. If you screw it up, you can just delete it and start over.
For me, VMs are a little more. When I'm running Linux, I always have a Win2003 VM running so I can access Trillian, Lotus Notes and .NET stuff.
But my main work computer and my main desk computer all run Fedora now. One is F8 and one is F9. My gaming computer is still Win2003. I'm still running 32 bit versions of everything since most multimedia codecs out there are only for 32 bit OSes. It's been rare that I've had more that 4GB of RAM installed anyhow.
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I just recently upgraded all my distributions to Fedora 10. Wow, Fedora has come a long way. This new version is simply gorgeous. The new aliased font makes the desktop look absolutely slick.
Probably the best part of it is networking was completely effortless. On my laptop, traditional installations of Linux has always been a pain in the arse because I have an EVDO modem, odd wireless, etc. I have never had a distribution "just work first time" until now. Now I can surf at Starbucks on my own wireless modem in Linux without any fuss.
I did have a bit of a problem with getting VMWare 5.5.8 going in F10, but if you have the "tweaked" vmware-update for the 2.6.27 kernel, it works again. This is a kernel revision problem, and not really a Fedora problem.
http://www.insecure.ws/warehouse/vmware-update-2.6.27-5.5.7-2.tar.gz
Also, I lost my delete, arrow and other control keys in VMware under F10. This is a known bug and you can fix it by simply adding the following line to the /etc/vmware/config file:
xkeymap.usekeycodeMap = true
Here's a pretty good review of F10:
http://www.montanalinux.org/fedora-10-review.html
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Cool I'll have to check out the new release, is it publicly available yet? Version 9 went in pretty smoothly even on Virtual PC although it took hours lol. Looking forward to checking out the new version.
X
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Ya, F10 is public now and has been for a few weeks. There haven't been too many kernel updates too, so the initial install is pretty smooth.
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years ago back when linux and unix were fairly unheard of by the mass public... slackware and freebsd were the top distrobutions... redhat (creator of fedora) was userfriendly back then but was riddled with bugs and security holes... but fedora has come along way to being one of the better distrobutions
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hey trailmyx do you have mono installed on fedora? or are you just running without razor?
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Hmm, I did that but I don't remember the results of that test. I think I was testing SUO at the time. I'll check this weekend for you.
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My computer right now triple boots Windows XP Pro 64-bit, Windows 7 Beta 64-bit, and Ubuntu. I must say that I do like Ubuntu, but have been tempted to explore Fedora. Ubuntu is nice because it found default drivers for my wireless card when Windows wouldn't (A Linksys wireless card no less, only THEE MOST COMMON Wireless USB adapter in the friggin world and Microsoft can't put a default driver in?!?).
For easy of use and feature-richness, I'd definitely recommend Ubuntu.
For some good hardcore Linux, Fedora!
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Ya, I only use Fedora because I've been using it since Redhat 5.2. You basically know where all the easter eggs are hidden. ;)
There's enough differences between Redhat and Debian-based distributions that keeps me confused enough and keeps me stuck in one camp. I like Ubuntu just because it's helped Linux garner a wider accepted user base. That alone demands respect. I've had it installed a couple times now and it was quite useful. But I have to know where my cheese is hidden, so I had to go back to Fedora. I'm not one of those people who says "Ubuntu suxzzz" without actually using it....
Before that, I started with slackware way back in 1992.
I'm actually dual booting now with F10 and W7. I have W2000, and W2003 running in VMs.
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Would I be able to get sound and use my remote (for Media Portal) like I now do on Windows Vista if I use VMware workstation on Ubuntu?
Also there is no problems using Easy UO, UO or razor?
Do you recommend Windows 2003 over WinXP for VMWare?
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The only reason I use Win2000 or Win2003 for VMs is because Microsoft isn't as anal about licensing Win2003. XP always drove me nuts when it "detected" a change in your system and required re-validation of the OS. I've spent way too much time on the phone with MS when I make a BIOS upgrade, or change hard drives. That alone makes me happy to be in Linux most of the time these days.
I'm not sure about Media Portal, you'll have to surf a bit for that. I can tell you that I use a Win2000 VM to host the server for my Netgear media wireless server and it works fine, so you'll have to research that.
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I don't know if this helps but there is something called MythTV. I know it can hook up with a capture card and act as a DVR... as far as streaming it to a tv, I am not sure...
http://www.mythtv.org/
edit: I tried redhat around 2000, I think it was redhat 5... I read a PCgamer review of linux stating how much more FPS you could get out of quake3, I was amazed! So I attempted to install it and it looked cool... but I had NO idea what I was doing.
I few years ago, I decided to take a dive again and I fell in love (this was ubuntu). I am looking to spread my wings and may give fedora shot.
How do you feel about CENTOS as a server platform?
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My own personal opinion of Linux..............I am a system administrator and I.T. Dept Manager for a living.. I have this poster framed on the wall of my office lol.
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My own personal opinion of Linux..............
LOL! Never built one from scratch but I've repaired my share of raster / vector monitors... does that count 8)
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I have a CentOS server running for my boss right now. It's pretty decent. Almost identical to Redhat Enterprise. Plenty of resources as well!
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Ah, that's harsh. :) Linux of 2010 is WAAAAY more friendly than when I started with it in 92-93. Back then I was installing Slackware from 5.25" disks. Command line all the way and the very first Xsession stuff.
Redhat even was able to identify my network HP scanner when Win7 could not. I've been a fan for a very long time. I've switched all my computers at my house except for 1 to Fedora 12; even my laptops and netbook.
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I can't help but be disappointed with linux in general. I'd have thought it would have come a LONG way towards being a more "commercial" os in all these years. You can argue all day about the merits of Linux, but in the end, it hasn't been hugely adopted because of its learning curve. Slap some more useability features on it and make it easy. I'm in. I'll even pay. :)
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I can't help but be disappointed with linux in general. I'd have thought it would have come a LONG way towards being a more "commercial" os in all these years. You can argue all day about the merits of Linux, but in the end, it hasn't been hugely adopted because of its learning curve. Slap some more useability features on it and make it easy. I'm in. I'll even pay. :)
When was the last time you tried it? I have an easier time installing Fedora than I do for windows, plus more things actually work the first time. Also, with most larger linux distributions, you get a boat-load of free installable applications. I just don't see where linux isn't "usable". I'm typing to you right now from it, via Firefox and it's working swimmingly. And I haven't issued a single Bash-shell command in a few weeks. So I'm not gonna argue about any merits, I'm just gonna say it's easy and it works. ;)
P.S. More people use Linux than do Macs. ;)
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I've tried a few different. Ubuntu being one. I've played with most over the years. And I haven't ever really been impressed. You tell me which one is best, list me the apps to install, and I'll try it again. But it would have to be a LOT better than Ubuntu half a year ago for me to adopt it. And I mean a LOT. :)
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I can't really speak for Ubuntu since I've only installed that one once. For kidz who like to do multimedia stuff and play gamez, it seems pretty good. Debian spins are normally pretty nice. I have always been a Redhat man since I gave up on Slackware, so I've thouroughly enjoyed the Fedora project. That's probably not for you because it allows Redhat to experiment on use like lab rats (well cared for lab rats, though.)
So I guess it just comes down to what you do with your computer. For this one, I surf the web, rip music, read emails, create presentations with OpenOffice, emulate windows with Wine for UO (yes, I play UO in Wine well enough), surf the newsgroups, and play bejeweled. So I'm covered and it doesn't cost me a dime. I just got done spending $250 on Win7, and I find that I spend more time in Fedora. Yikes. So for me, I've addressed most if not all my general computer usage needs from Linux. It's just a different experience, and personally I like to have a bit more control over things. I don't exactly think Bill Gates knows best all the time about what my computer experience should be. ;)
My main CPU is multi boot anyhow, so if I really need Windows for something, I have Win2003, Win7 and Redhat 12 available. So I've got the best of all worlds.
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Oh hell I just finally got my rig back up and running! Now you how me this! Questions, ovibously I know what Wine is, how easy is it to find drivers and updated them for linux?
Second, Can linux support multiple monitors? i.e. 3?
Is there a good media center for linux that will utilize not only the media center remote but will use my tuner card as well and bluray? Links appreciated if they are a yes. I would switch to linux in a second if they had all that and a firefox :)
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I've never run more than 2 monitors in Linux. Chances are good that I'll work since that's a driver dependency that's normally covered by video card manufacturers. Still would be good to check for sure. But I always have 2 monitors running on all my rigs, and all is good. 3d desktop effects even work with the two monitors (window wobble, 3d cubic desktop, multiple desktops, etc.)
With Fedora, it uses YUM (an update manager originally from Yellowdog), and this keeps your system up to date including all the software tracked by the update manager. So when you kernel changes, programs like Wine will update if needed. EUO doesn't work very well under Wine, FYI. It's good for just playing though. Sometimes I think it runs smoother under Wine.
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if you want to use a capture card with linux, check out the mythtv (also check to see if its supported too :P )
I hear good things about XBMC for linux as well...
If you want the stability of linux but with user friendly features go buy a mac... I know... I know... its BSD but they are very close cousins. If you feel like you need control over your computer, your best bet is linux.
Personally I run Ubuntu, I think the latest version is Great! If you want to talk about easy installing of software, use the Add software button on the "start" menu. Doesn't get much easier than that. Plus I really like the way debian handles their updating of the system with aptitude.
I can't say how it compares to red hat... but I did give fedora (9?) a shot a bit ago and it had problems getting drivers for my hardware which ubuntu did not.
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I use Windows, becouse Linux is not for gamers. You can praise it as long as you want, but wine can't do everything. New games never work and most of the old ones either.
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I use Windows, becouse Linux is not for gamers. You can praise it as long as you want, but wine can't do everything. New games never work and most of the old ones either.
That's why I always keep one computer around that's able to dual-boot. Gaming in Linux can be a pain in the butt. However, you can have some success with in. In fact, I preferred to play WoW in Linux because the framerate was much higher for me than running in Windows. But I do agree with your Linux/Gaming assessment. ;)
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Here is a nice article on stratics about installing and running uo in linux, and it's been updated.
http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=31435 (http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=31435)
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Hey TM,
Was wondering if you had any suggestions for me as for a new distro? I've used gentoo before, only on my desktop though, I cannot get it to install correctly on my laptop (which is where I want to have linux). Right now I am sporting Linux Mint (I heard it was a decent offset of Ubuntu) however I have decided that I really dislike it and have been wanting to go with something maybe in the KDE area, I was also looking into Slackware (13.37 version) a bit. I am unable to decide though.
Basically all I really want it for is a when I am out and about, away from my Desktop. Gotta survive out there IRL, right? Always on the run, but never AFK. :>
Something that performs fast, will continue to let me learn python, allows me to remote desktop and check things out, maybe even log into UO with a VM of sorts and will support aircrack-ng. Basically all I really do anymore is game, learn code, and reverse code engineer, and I already utilize Backtrack as a sandbox environment via live CD (Which I should actually make a bit more permanent... I need to figure out a way to make it load fresh from the HDD, yet maintain system security.)
Anyways, would you have any suggestions?
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Ubuntu spins are still the best if you are going to be doing multimedia stuff, IMHO. I'm still running Fedora, though. I only do that because I'm used to the Yellowdog variants from days gone by. I'm not one of those people that will randomly say, "Ubuntu sucks" without having anything to back it up. I've used it successfully a couple times, but I was just not used to where they moved my cheese vs. Fedora.
I haven't used much else recently. I've used Mandriva, Gentoo and openSUSE also in the past, but those have dropped off somewhat. Mint sounds interesting. One problem with distros these days is that they are embracing GNOME3 (please find my other post on how that sucks). Unfortunately, the latest versions of KDE don't work much better, so I'm pretty happy with XFCE. So if the UI is bugging you with Mint, try and see if XFCE can be installed. That helped me alot. Using Gnome3 is like using your laptop like an Etch-a-sketch. Simply terrible.
I was using Fedora/XFCE on my multimedia box for a while, but I finally switched over to Win7. Just was missing all kinda of features like a multimedia server to access my countless terabytes of movies, music, etc.
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Ahh
Yeah I really do not like GNOME in general, despite it's recent downfalls... KDE in my experience has been far more pleasurable in both feel and performance. I'll have to checkout XFCE, I've heard good things about it, have never actually looked at it though. If an ubuntu variant is your suggestion though, I'll checkout the lates Mint and see how it does.
How is multimedia defined though?
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Well if you didn't really like Gnome, then you probably won't like XFCE. The reason I like XFCE is because it's more like Gnome 2.0 that the Gnome people burned like a witch with the introduction of 3.0.