The END of EUO.

[manwinc]

Hahahahahaha, well I guess I'll have to start coding in OEUO fully now Twinkle McNugget!!!

[_C2_]

I will bet that the translater is either never completed or is more than 8-12 months away easily.

[12TimesOver]

Christ I'm sick and tired of being so reliant on a product in the control of such a frigging drama-laden hothead. There are so many things wrong with the way he's going about this that it makes me entirely uninterested in OEUO whatsoever. The changes required to keep a functioning 1.5 running are very minor and it should be maintained at least until the translator is functional and stable; that's just plain common courtesy! There are hundreds of thousands of hours put into EUO code and he just gave everyone the big ol' middle finger al in the name of wanting more attention to a project he's unwilling to give up some control over.

I'm happy for you Twinkle McNugget, it's great that you've been in a position to go learn OEUO. I didn't choose to not learn OEUO out of laziness, I am just simply not in a similar position as you. Life is busy and OEUO is not a priority for me, plain and simple, and I think it sucks that this means that I don't get to play in the sandbox anymore without a bit of care on the part of Cheffe. Sure, "there is an emulator in the works" as you say but re-reading the post a million times won't make that emulator done NOW and I have watched some of our most talented scripters get frustrated with the incompleteness of OEUO. Short and sweet - he pulled the plug too early. Period. Why not have someone else take over 1.5 so he doesn't have to worry about updating it? Because it could take the focus off OEUO; in other words, it's a power move.

Anyhow, I'm frustrated just like thousands of others are currently frustrated. I don't think telling everyone they should have seen it coming is really a valid argument.

X

[Cerveza]

I don't think Cheffe knows that much about programming. Really, he's just doing this like Mythic does... release a half assed product, mandate that people use it, have people QC it for you.

His endless "I've spent sooooo many hours" stuff wears me thin. If it's too hard - don't do it. If you need help with it - GET HELP WITH IT. Don't keep complaining that "I'm the only one.... I've spent endless hours..." all the time if you shut everyone else out. It's your problem.

I'd love to see someone release a replacement that would run EUO scripts flawlessly. That would be the end of EasyUO as a program and a site. Nobody would go there any longer.

[manwinc]

Oh, and Twinkle McNugget I payed tribute to you in my first OEUO script

--=======================================
--  >>>> Twinkle McNugget is a Nub <<<<<
-- >>>> But He's A Cool Nub<<<<
--=======================================

[Scrripty]

See, if manw can write a complicated oeuo script like that so can you! haha  My oeuo script folder is already overflowing with half done scripts and badly implemented lua code... hehe

[12TimesOver]

Wanna get really upset?  He did this after an email from me in which I stated he should stop listening to the whiners and remember that he does all this for himself and some of us appreciate the free tools and education... haha oops.   Its his toy, his decision.  Hes shared with everyone but in the end owns the righ to do whats best for his toy.  Agree or not, thats the way it is.  You doom and gloomers have been warned time and again and didnt even start to learn.  So let me say what Ive bee saying over and over for a while, its not that hard, start reading.  You can be writing simple scripts in 30 minutes.

I'm confident that Cheffe didn't make this choice solely on an email from you so no, that doesn't phase me in the least. Actually, it wouldn't bother me even if he did base it solely on your email because you emailing Cheffe is not important to me whatsoever, that's your business and I support it wholeheartedly.

We're all entitled to our own opinions and you have yours. I agree that this is "his" product and yes, he's absolutely free to do whatever he wants with his toys. I'm just telling you that, regardless of your opinion and Cheffe support, there is a whole other VALID argument on the other side of this discussion. He should be waiting until there is something more stable in place before taking this step. I even agree that he SHOULD take this step eventually, just not yet. These may be his toys but he put them out there for everyone to play with for years and now he has an implied responsibility to tens of thousands of EUO users whether he likes it or not. This move is nothing more than a larger-scale J4bber stunt and shows that he's not up to the task.

I believe that everything will eventually work out in the end, it's just going to be a lot more painful than it needs to be.

Personally, I think pointing the finger and laughing at everyone who hasn't had the time or energy to participate in developing a pre-alpha product is in very poor taste. I like it when you push people to learn LUA and when you talk about the success you've been having yourself; you should stop there and be a positive influence instead of taunting.


X

[Cerveza]

I just can't get over his constant whining about it. If he doesn't want to do it then don't. But don't blame us for his failings.

And comparing it to Windows 2000? What's that all about. Did Microsoft have a replacement that was FULLY FUNCTIONAL before discontinuing Win2k? Hell yes they did. He just has a half-assed replacement smoke and mirror app. that's far from functional.

[TrailMyx]

Plus that's a bit trollish; I we all know what happens to trolls here....

[TrailMyx]

All I'm asking is for a little less "haha, you guys lose" and a little more constructive talking going forward.  Sensitivity is needed because there are some people hurt and in mourning.  We're not getting much sensitivity over at EUO, so at least we can extend that much.

[TrailMyx]

...You can endure a little ribbing.

I'd let the corpse cool a bit before you start dancing about with said POM-POMs.... 

[Toptwo]

Instead of trying to make this a personal argument, and getting upset, you should be reading the lua docs...  Cheffe has no responsibility to anyone.  He could pull the carpet at any time.  I think everyone should consider that a bit and jump on the LUA bandwagon.  In my email or two with him, it sounds like all he wants is for people to give it a good college try, and I'm confident when people stop whining and just do it, they'll see it's not so bad.  TM wouldn't have converted as much as he has to it if there wasn't some redeeming quality to it.  I haven't seen QUITE the OEUO bashing from TM that he was doing at first...  haha  (Watch, now he's gonna bash me for saying that but I think he was caught spooning Cheffe...)

  The fact that you are already on the bandwagon is great Twinkle McNugget..and I mean that in a good way..I think what people are fighting though (and will continue to fight) is the way Cheffe is trying to force everybody on that wagon. I know you Twinkle McNugget (most of us here do) and I believe the fact is that if you wern't already on that bandwagon you would be just as pissed as some of the people here...you're not one to be "forced" to do anything.

  I dont write scripts, and I dont use that many scripts (I am gonna miss claw, and manwinc's miner and lumberjacker) for awhile...but those are really the only scripts I have even used in the last year....if I could never script again it wont bother me that much, certianly not enough to make me quit UO...I Personally think that some people script to the point that they arent even playing anymore..the scripts are doing all the playing. I still enjoy clicking the mouse and doing some things myself...so if Cheffe disabled the whole thing and tossed it out it wouldnt bother me...what bothers me is the way he is going about doing what he is doing.

  It might be HIS ball, and he might have the legal right to do what he wants with it, it will remain my opinion that after sharing his ball for so long that he has moral obligations..and he is failing to meet those obligations. He never once put it up to a vote rather his "followers" wanted to go to OEUO or stay with EUO 1.5. He took it on himself to do the change, and start writing the code for the change. I am willing to bet almost anything that had he put it up to a vote that a overwhelming percentage of people would have chosen to stay with 1.5..which would have saved him (as he says) 100's of hours of work.

  As I said before...I am playing right now without EUO (when it was down for a month that time I played every day) and I will continue to play without it, Cheffe did a shitty thing (in my opinion) by doing it this way, and I believe he is going to run into more naysayers then bandwagoners because of the way he is forcing people into what he wants.

  However, Twinkle McNugget, even if I am wrong, and everybody jumps on that bandwagon to help poor old friendless cheffe...you still need to give people time to blow off some steam..without waving the red flag in front of thier faces.

[Cerveza]

I write little stuff, and use that stuff almost daily.

Select Source container, opens that container, select destination container, opens that container, type or all?, moves stuff

Waits for bod book to open, selects the buy button, waits for buy gump to open, selects yes to buy it, waits for bod to appear in pack, moves it to bod book in my pack

Takes bod out of book, waits for it to appear in backpack, puts it into a different book

Cast GHeal on selected target, wait for mana to be XXX, repeat (this is easy in UOAssist, but I had the primary using UOA)

It doesn't help having the "Twinkle McNugget's" out there laughing "Oh it's so easy, just try it". Because it's not. EasyUO is that easy. Open EasyUO isn't. If it were, then there would be a bandage healer or a potion drinker or any number of smaller scripts already written in OEUO, and there aren't.

[Endless Night]

OpenEUO ie Lua is not easy for the layman.   But was EasyUo that easy when we started.. no we eased our way into it.

Now im a programmer have been for more years than i can count... and programmed in more languages than i care to rember. And learning a new language is never Easy.  Its a right royal pain in the backside and requires i immerse myself into the new syntax the new way of writting gosub / function/procedure etc.  Alot of it amounts to straight transalation instead of writting set x 1  you wirte x = 1, some of it means a new approach completly.

Its a pain .. but trust me it can be done... it takes time.. unfortunatly for most of us time is a precious commoditity.

I dont like the way the transition has been handled... but done is done, im havent read anything that would give me anyhope that this will be reversed.....so for me its time to move forward.. do i continue with UO/scripting or not.. if i do its OpenEUO, and a hard slog ahead to convert my essential scripts.

One thing that would be nice is a converter ... something that grabs an easyuo script and converts what can be swapped out 1-1 command wise and tags the unconvertable lines for examination.

[_C2_]

LUA is much more complex than the simple language of easy uo.  Easy uo wasn't terrible to learn but it took a lot of time.  Time that was available for that window in my life.  My life is different now and I cannot invest the same or even close to the amount of time needed.  Learnign to write scripts is one thing.  Helping cheffe design a program... well, you have to be kidding me.  I have zero programming skills as does the mass amounts of users over there.  I could read LUA documments for a few hours a day for the next month and still not have anything significant to add to the programming side of open easyuo.  Anyone that thinks differently is gravely mistaken.  

On the other hand, I could test scripts there and give specific feedback concerning performance and actions.  OEUO is not that developed yet for that to be very productive.

To say everyone has done nothing when they are doing their best to make updates to their code and keep them running until the product is ready to run them is thoughtless.  Cheffe went back on his word and that is enough to tell me what I need to know about someone.  I appreciate the product, am hopeful for the future, and appreciate the emulator if it happens.  For now though, the screw you guys I'm going home attitude is a downer.