Author Topic: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!  (Read 36989 times)

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Offline TrailMyxTopic starter

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Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« on: November 06, 2008, 09:27:46 AM »
+1
Ok, so if you haven't tried to run a virtual machine yet with UO, I suggest you try.  You can easily get 4 instances of UO running on an average desktop computer.  The best thing about doing this is the VM instances don't interact with one another like they might if you try to use multiple clients on the same OS.

I'll try and go through the setup procedure for several popular VM software suppliers and you can come here to have some of your questions answered when you run into problems.  To get you started, here's some links for several popular VM clients:

VirtualBox Sun Microsystems
Virtual PC 2007 Microsoft Corporation
VMWare Workstation VMWare (the one I use mostly)
VMware Player VMware
Fedora Virtualization (Xen) Redhat

Also, here's a nice link describing the differences between the various Virtualization offerings:

http://virt.kernelnewbies.org/TechComparison

A word here about VMWare:

You'll find that I have a bias toward VMWare.  There's a few reasons for it:

1) Virtual machines will run from both Linux or Windows clients.  So I copy my "master" VM from my Windows world and linux, and it just "works".
2) VMware multithreads very well.  There are problems with some VM managers where they work fine with a single thread, but when you try to use more than one application, they will bog down.  VMWare handles this very well.
3) VMWare tools are fast.  Installing the video/USB/mouse drivers makes the machine very snappy.  Better than the others (and non existant in ZEN)
4) VMWare handles multiple CPU very well
5) Virtual machine cloning
6) VM snapshot capability and movie creation.
7) Lots more... I just can't remember them all now.



« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 10:05:25 AM by TrailMyx »
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Offline Cerveza

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2008, 09:32:19 AM »
+1
I've always wanted to set this up, yet never really understood the procedure.

Anxiously awaiting a walk thru.
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Offline TrailMyxTopic starter

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2008, 09:36:46 AM »
+1
I will probably start with VirtualBox since that one is free to anyone and you can create your own virtual images.  (and it doesn't have anything to do with MS). 
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Offline Xclio

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2008, 04:48:51 AM »
+1
I heart VMWare.  I have alot of licensed copies of it from work that I use at home for UO, makes heartwood running soo much easier because I can still use my computer while it is running ;)

Offline 12TimesOver

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 05:59:47 AM »
+1
I've used mostly Virtual PC for my desktop stuff with great success but haven't spent much time with VMWare Server. I do manage about 30 or so ESX hosts at work and I am a VMWare lover for sure. Of course you don't get the awesome enterprise ESX features with VMWare Server but considering ESX isn't free I wouldn't expect anything more.

Where I'm at is wanting to have a firm base of understanding for chosing MS Virtual PC or VMWare Server other than not wanting to us a MS product. Both are free. Both are easy to install and use. Both are well supported. Why then chose VMWare Server over Virtual PC 2007?

So, I decided to spend some time today setting up VMWare Server on my HP Workstation class PC here at work where I have Virtual PC 2007 running and see how things go. While I'm at it I figure I'll do some playing around with a Linux image.

Thanks for keeping the topics fresh TM!!

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Offline 12TimesOver

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 06:36:52 AM »
+1
Ok, just getting ready to install it after a 580 meg download!?!? Compare this to MS Virtual PC 2007 at about 32megs. I'll assume for now that the reason will become clear to me eventually!  ::)

XII

EDIT - Holy crap, this includes a full Apache install?!?! Woah, the reason for the DL size is certainly becoming clear!

EDIT 2 - Ok, so there has got to be a huge difference with the VMWare Workstation product because VMWare server is certainly not competition for Virtual PC 2007 since VPC is directed at a general user market thus is much simpler than VMWare Server which is really a step toward ESX (a lot like GSX really). So my guess is that VM Server is not going to find it's way into the general consumer market whereby VPC most certainly will. TM, is VM Workstation simpler to use (ie, no web management etc)? I'll have fun playing with this but your general UO player and part-time scripter is going to be lost with Server.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 07:06:43 AM by 12TimesOver »
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Offline TrailMyxTopic starter

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 07:53:54 AM »
+1
TM, is VM Workstation simpler to use (ie, no web management etc)? I'll have fun playing with this but your general UO player and part-time scripter is going to be lost with Server.

VMWare Workstation is much simpler to use because each instance includes it's own UI in its own application.  In that respect, VMWare Workstation and VirtualBox are similar.  I just got done with a fresh installation of VirtualBox and have been running the quester with it over the weekend.  I think it's still a tad slower than VMWare, but the price is right.  Free is good.  For the casual hobbyist wanting to play around with virtualization, it works well enough.

Here's a pic of the VMWare Workstation UI (I'm only running v5.5):

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Offline Xclio

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 08:03:40 AM »
+1
VM workstation is a much more user friendly interface especially when compared to ESX and VM Server.  I do have to agree that the VirtualBox software is a tad slower but if your looking for free VirtualBox is well worth it.

Offline 12TimesOver

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 08:31:10 AM »
+1
Yep that UI is much simpler.

Also, just want to point out since it has already been mentioned that VB is free, so if VMWare Server 2 and Virtual PC 2007. Looks like I might have to cough up the $189 to get VMWare Workstation though if I want to test, nobody at work will let go of any 6.0 licenses (nobody has 6.5) even though they aren't using them LOL.

Man, $189 is a little steep IMO when VB and MS VPC are free! With Server it seems like they are giving it away only to get Enterprise level users hooked into the idea of going to the full ESX environment rather than looking to compete with the general consumer products.
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Offline TrailMyxTopic starter

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2008, 08:34:36 AM »
+1
Man, $189 is a little steep IMO when VB and MS VPC are free! With Server it seems like they are giving it away only to get Enterprise level users hooked into the idea of going to the full ESX environment rather than looking to compete with the general consumer products.

Yeh, I agree.  However, the performance of VMWare seems to be faster, and faster still when you have multiple instances of Workstation running on a single CPU.  So I guess it's a matter of getting what you pay for.

Personally, I haven't used the ESX offering or any of the enterprise stuff.  I'd like to have all the system resources managed by a server; that sound more efficient!
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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 08:36:13 AM »
+1
I haven't gotten any 6.5 licenses yet but I might (no guarantees) be able to get you a 6.0 license.  Might be a couple of days before I know for sure as I gotta dig through and see what we have left ;)

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 08:49:07 AM »
+1
I haven't gotten any 6.5 licenses yet but I might (no guarantees) be able to get you a 6.0 license.  Might be a couple of days before I know for sure as I gotta dig through and see what we have left ;)

Are you effing serious?!?!?! That would be awesome!! From what you guys are saying I will be much happier with VMW than VPC. Today is starting to look like a much better day than it started out looking!!!  :P

On the ESX front TM, I think one of the coolest features IMO is the way shared memory is handled by the host in that guests running on the same host with the same code in memory will share applicable memory rather than loading the same code over and over for every guest. This obviously allows for more efficient use of the hardware resources and for loading more guests on a single host, especially when you start organizing guests to take advantage of this ability.

We're running Enterprise here so of course the HA features and VMotion are the icing on the cake. Nothing like moving guests from one host to another with zero downtime! Of course nothing too exciting for your general UO scripter but for critical system business continuity there's no other option IMO.

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Offline TrailMyxTopic starter

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 08:57:14 AM »
+1
One of these days I will play with it.  Limited brain bandwidth at the moment.  :)  But ESX did look cool.

I haven't even run Virtual PC yet, mainly because it's a Microsoft offering and I've been trying to get away from MS.  Trying is the operative word because I have a pretty deep dependence on .NET now with SUO.  Ugh.
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Offline Xclio

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2008, 09:44:59 AM »
+1
ESX is very cool, we run it on our security suite and host 4 servers on it which has saved a ton of cost :)

Yeah I am serious about the license, just gotta see what we have, my team has access to alot of Volume licensing goodness ;)

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Re: Virtualization is the key to UO scripting success!
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 08:59:27 AM »
+1
ive used vmware for years... ive tried a few of the other virtualization systems out there and still find that vmware has to be the best one ive ever ran across...

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