Early bod observations post pub 95

[Gemviper]

I've been on test a while checking out the new system, and it's a lot different than the current one...

- Bods no longer give rewards(like PoF, Hammer etc), they all give points
- Each bod gives a choice of receiving full value(ie: 25 pts on a small iron 20 buckler bod) for turning in or partial value(0.125 pts) for banking the value instead
- Banking pts value looks locked at 5% of the total turn in value
- If you choose to take the full value of the bod you MUST spend those pts before the NPC accepts another bod from you
- If you choose to bank the 5% offer you can carry those pts over into the value of another bod
- example: PoF is on the rewards menu for 425 pts. If you do a bod worth 425 pts you can pick PoF with that one bod, no need to bank the pts
- Each craft has it's own rewards menu so if you plan on doing all types of crafting bods the pts do not pool together
- I did a valorite normal small 15 and got 850 pts for it, a valorite hammer on the menu is 1200 pts, so the top end items will require you to bank at least some bods
- The 6 hr timer remains, and it still accumulates up to 3 bods at a time. Likewise you get another new bod for every bod you turn in.

If PoF is what you are after then any bod you have which gives more than 425pts is in effect a PoF bod. A copper runic is 650 pts. I don't have a chart of which bods are worth what yet but will work on it. It's taking me a bit to wrap my head around the new system, it's not like the current system at all.

I can see that they took care to mess up scripters a bit during turn in. If you bank everything you lose 95% of the point value so banking a 450pt bod instead of taking PoF as a reward will be a huge loss in gold value. When you sort your bods there will not be any more "PoF" book or "hammer" book etc, since it's all about pts you'll set waypoints instead... like "425+" for any bod that gives PoF and "650+" for any bod that gives a copper runic etc. Those bods can be instantly turned in for those rewards on the spot without banking pts. Anything below 425 looks like it would be best to bank.

My take: I like the system. Tinkerers can make a 250 PoF holding keg and there are other various nice perks. As for running tons of bod runners on all accounts and all servers to make this work, no longer needed. Why not? Because you don't need mass amounts of bods anymore to get the rewards you want. You don't need to churn and hope for a PoF bod for example. Sure you can run lots of accounts for more bods but having just 1 smith standing at the forge turning them over will end up with the same number of rewards over time. Every bod suddenly has value.

What does it mean for scripters? It means you don't need a lot of bod "runners", you need a lot of bod "finishers" that are actually completing them. Gathering is no longer the focus, more won't get you better rewards vs someone with just one smith who is doing every bod. I'm wondering if the REAL value in the new system will be to mine the ore and sell it instead, there will probably be an increased price on materials soon. Likewise it may be better still to just turn in the ingots for cleanup pts and buy other stuff on the cleanup menu.

FYI: Dyes are not in the bod rewards, those must be from the yearly artisan fair which runs Dec 1 to Jan 1.

[Gemviper]

Interesting Finding: The reward "values" haven't changed. Example: a 20 count exceptional dull copper bod yielded a powder of fortification most of the time before and it now gives 450pts which is what PoF costs on the new rewards menu.

It looks like you can use the old rewards charts to see what a bod should give you as a reward and expect that it will give enough pts to buy that reward immediately, without banking. They did a straight 1 to 1 conversion on pts for rewards value between new and old system.

This is just in test center so it may change but for now it looks like a bod will give you enough pts to buy whatever it used to give you before. Copper hammer bods are still worth Copper hammer level of pts etc. I haven't done any large bods but I'd be willing to wager that those too yield whatever they used to in pts. A Large valorite hammer bod, for example, probably gives 1200 pts which is what a valorite hammer costs on the menu.

IRON 15N = 25pts
DC 10N = 210pts
DC 15N = 225pts
DC 20X = 450pts <--- used to be a PoF bod, now gives pts = to what a PoF costs on the rewards menu
Shadow 10N = 260pts
Aga 15X = 650pts <--- used to be a copper runic bod, now gives pts = to a copper runic

The price of PoF will not hold 100k after the patch goes live, potentially every bod above Exceptional 20 dull copper can be used to get PoF as a reward. Some of the other skills have useful items, like a tinkering map that guarantees you find a specific large ore vein. ie: a valorite map in your pack = you find a large valorite deposit and use up the map. Is it worth doing tinker bods just for the maps? Depends, do you want more valorite?

Alchemy has some sweet rewards, like a cauldron of transmutation. It has a 3-1 ratio that lets you turn boards into better boards. Must be used by owner within 4 hrs and has 7500 charges, so convert 22500 boards into 7500 better boards.

[manwinc]

[Gemviper]

Source on that? It shows what I found too, the rewards charts haven't changed except now you have the option of picking up any lower reward if you like. ie: a 900pt bod can buy 2x450pt PoFs.

There is going to be a ton of all items worth 900pts or less on the auction house when this goes live, all lower end rewards, incl pof, will be too easy to get to hold their current value.

[manwinc]

This was from stratics. Its the way the point system used to work for Bods that determined their reward value. I'm assuming the same still holds true.

[cybercasper]

Great write up Gem. Seems like it could turn a profit at some point or lower the price we will just have to wait and see where it goes

[manwinc]

My prediction is that anything requiring only a small bod will go down in price. Large bod rewards may go up in price until new turn in scripts are finished to handle the gump selections.

[Gemviper]

Lower level rewards like Powder of Fortification which currently goes for somewhere just north of 100k on Atlantic will go down, I guarantee it. The reason is because it's going to be hard to do a bod(any exceptional bod above 20 DC) and not get it as an option. The bribe system is still in play so any exceptional 20 iron armor or shield can also be made into PoF level in 1 bribe still... so any colored exceptional = a PoF.

They knew this would happen, tinkers can get a PoF keg that holds 250 charges now, or 25 PoF. Everyone needs the stuff but it's going to be very, very common. Copper runic hammers are also worth quite a bit because they are perhaps the best choice for making luck suits but the system will also generate a lot of those, the tipping point where things get a bit harder seems to be right around the bronze hammer level.

I personally do not plan on completing any large or normal bods at this point until I have a lifetime supply of PoF on hand, at a keg per suit a chest full of kegs should do   and since there is a month to go before this goes live I fully expect many of the multi-account 3k+ bods a day guys to have so much PoF level stuff stored up for release day that it really won't take long for the price to drop. Need PoF? Do a single bod, almost any bod especially if you bribe it once or twice... it's too easy.

As with any system there is a "most profitable" setup which varies depending on the market. My gut tells me that with the new system the "value" will be to either just turn in the ingots for cleanup pts directly(100 valorite = 1000 pts) or to use the stuff to make suits. I think some of the bod regulars are already making suits with their extra materials on Atlantic and they are about to have a lot of extra materials. Turning in ingots for cleanup pts to get dyes might not generate 5-8millon anymore if the new dyes are any good.

Cooking looks to be a disappointment on the rewards menu, there is a nice deco tree but not much else. Alchemy has dyes and tinkering has the 250 PoF keg as rewards and most of them give you tools to convert materials into better materials(at a loss of course, 3 for 1) and/or to find the materials you want guaranteed. The ore maps let you find various veins or ore but you have to get to specific co-ordinates which is a pain.

Overall I like the system but it's not likely going to be the cash cow it has become for the Luna elite with 10+ accounts. All rewards are easier to get now, no RNG involved. If you are sitting on a ton of bods right now you may as well turn in your iron still and your PoF bods but I'd hold onto any bod above PoF level, you'll have extra points for each of those if you wait.

re: Just turning in ingots for cleanup value... turning iron ingots into dull copper ingots is the only move which would increase the net value of what you have after a 3 for 1 trade, you'll lose net value with any other transmute so many of the rewards to upgrade mats are in fact not profitable. The maps on the other hand for guaranteed agapite/verite/valorite might be interesting.
Iron Ingot    0.10
Dull Copper Ingot    0.50
Shadow Iron Ingot    0.75
Copper Ingot    1
Bronze Ingot    1.50
Golden Ingot    2.50
Agapite Ingot    5
Verite Ingot    8.50
Valorite Ingot    10

[Gemviper]

Bod runner setup: Although having bod runner characters just became totally optional because you're either cashing out or banking every bod now there is still some value in them because you can ignore some bods(like normal weapon 20 bods) and not run out. If you plan to make more bod runners where do you plan on parking their skills?

- 0.1 smithing skill for a normal small non-colored bod every single time(that give 0.125pts)
- 85.0 to get mostly normal non-colored but have a chance for both colored and exceptional smalls, but no large bods
- 85.1+ to get a chance at large bods
- 100 because OCD requires a nice clean number
- 120 just because to get more exceptionals and larges

In my opinion large bods, normal or exceptional, might not be worth doing in smithing because bribing just 2 parts of any large bod to whatever reward you are after would be the same as doing the one large bod in terms of points. 2x small = 2 PoF vs 1 large = 2 PoF etc. The top rewards are simply not used in crafting because of the ease at which mid-level mats(copper hammers, horned runics) make top pieces of armor while leaving the most imbue room available.

Valorite Runic Hammer = 8k cleanup pts per charge(120k for one new hammer). It falls off quickly for verite and agapite but the best value from large bods might be to turn in for cleanup points? I dunno.

[12TimesOver]

Excellent stuff Gem, thanks for the thoughts and info so far!

I haven't had much gaming time lately so just curious if you might already know this. What of the BOD's that give a % chance of one thing vs another, for example the 20X DC today is a 90% chance of a PoF and 10% chance of, I believe, +5 mining gloves. In your research so far:

1) Is the % portion of this now obsolete in that you will ALWAYS get 425 points? Or is there a 10% chance that you will get less?
2) In this example, is it the same number of points for Gloves as for a PoF?
3) What if I turn in a BOD for 650 points and immediately spend 425 on a PoF, does the remaining 225 automatically get banked at the 95% loss rate? Or do I get to pick multiple rewards with one turn-in? This will determine whether higher point BOD turn-ins will be worth spending on lower point items or not.

So many questions!

X

[Gemviper]

1) Is the % portion of this now obsolete in that you will ALWAYS get 425 points? Or is there a 10% chance that you will get less?
2) In this example, is it the same number of points for Gloves as for a PoF?
3) What if I turn in a BOD for 650 points and immediately spend 425 on a PoF, does the remaining 225 automatically get banked at the 95% loss rate? Or do I get to pick multiple rewards with one turn-in? This will determine whether higher point BOD turn-ins will be worth spending on lower point items or not.

#1 - It's obsolete, you always get the same pts now 100% of the time. There is no 90/10 split on reward anymore.
#2 - You can buy PoF for 450 pts, the gloves are also for sale but cost less
#3 - It's 450pts for a PoF, I stated 425 above by mistake. If you turn in a bod for 650 pts and buy a PoF for 450 you have 200 pts left to spend that you MUST spend before being able to turn in another bod. The banked pts(5% of the full value if you go that route) do not block you from handing in more bods but claiming the full value does block you from handing in more bods until you spend the points, they do not save and can't be added to the next bod.

From a scripting point of view it's going to be easy to deal with the iron churn bods, you'll always take the 5% or an item worth 25 pts, but the colored ones get more tricky. You'll need to evaluate how many points you have, what's available to buy and make it happen before proceeding.

Tip: The gloves have some turn in pts value so using any leftover pts on those will at least help you get cleanup pts too. Alternatively if you want PoF at 450 but the bod gave you 650 it might be better to bribe it until it's worth 900pts and get 2 PoF from it... or stop at a copper runic, for example. Bribing just got more interesting, and more complicated, depending on how you plan to handle bods/rewards... ie: how much work you're willing to do to maximize results by bribing bods to reduce "leftover" pts and get better/more rewards.

Thinking outside the box a little, instead of taking 5% pts on iron churn bods why not buy gloves and turn those into cleanup pts? Finding the synergy in your setup will take a little time.

[declo]

Curious question, with the new system, are only points rewarded or is there some gold awarded also?

[12TimesOver]

If you turn in a bod for 650 pts and buy a PoF for 450 you have 200 pts left to spend that you MUST spend before being able to turn in another bod. The banked pts(5% of the full value if you go that route) do not block you from handing in more bods but claiming the full value does block you from handing in more bods until you spend the points, they do not save and can't be added to the next bod.

<snip>

Alternatively if you want PoF at 450 but the bod gave you 650 it might be better to bribe it until it's worth 900pts and get 2 PoF from it... or stop at a copper runic, for example. Bribing just got more interesting, and more complicated, depending on how you plan to handle bods/rewards... ie: how much work you're willing to do to maximize results by bribing bods to reduce "leftover" pts and get better/more rewards.

Thanks for the quick replies Gem! Yes, you are hitting on exactly what I was thinking. There are going to be a number of BOD "sweet spots" depending on costs of bribing coupled with point "break points" and eventually we will have all of these ironed out for optimal returns.

I'm pretty fascinated by these changes myself, definitely making me interested in logging in a bit to play around.

I don't know about the whole Artisan Fair piece though, sounds like the rewards won't end up being anything worth going after.

This could start running Bribery costs SO much higher than what they already are. Will be interesting to watch.

X

[manwinc]

Hmm, When I tested it wouldn't let me pick a second item if I had points remaining.

[Gemviper]

Nope, like I said, if you take the points instead of banking 5% of them you have to spend them all and are blocked from taking/handing in more bods til you've spent them all.

Bod waypoints is a good way to look at the new system. A bod worth 450 pts would be at the "PoF" waypoint but EVERY bod with a value higher than that can also be a PoF bod now. If you value copper or bronze runic hammers next then your waypoints would be 450 and 650(example) so you'd sort your bods accordingly. At 900 pts you could grab a higher end hammer or start to get 2 of the 450 waypoint rewards. Don't forget about the gloves(200/250pts I think), they turn in for 100-300 cleanup points... which makes 650 a double waypoint because you can then get a higher level hammer or a PoF and some cleanup pts.

You really will need to figure out what you are after and bribe/complete your bods accordingly. Bring a PoF keg to store 25 jars of PoF when you go to do turn-ins, the stuff is going to be very common really quick.

You do get a small amount of gold with bods but no random shovels, tools and items anymore. At 10pts you get a 250 charge smith hammer so I don't suspect people will be tinkering those while smithing anymore.